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![\"362.dcm\"](\"https://www.googleapis.com/download/storage/v1/b/kaggle-forum-message-attachments/o/inbox%2F8136323%2F8914c5d1f5bb27757fc30cdc11a74749%2F362.png?generation=1693187520256032&alt=media\")
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![\"363.dm\"](\"https://www.googleapis.com/download/storage/v1/b/kaggle-forum-message-attachments/o/inbox%2F8136323%2F0f978fb03f85fc2faaa8d3f8a4c1cce8%2F363.png?generation=1693187570093590&alt=media\")
The following scans are from 10004/21057:
\n
\n
The first one is 362.dcm and the second is 363.dcm. The img-level labels claim that extravasation is not visible in 362 but is visible in 363. I'm curious that where exactly is the extravasation?
", "messages": [ { "id": 2412247, "postDate": "2023-08-28T07:02:36.513Z", "content": "There is some information on extravasation in Clarification on Provided Labels/Annotations
\nImage level labels:
\na. These are provided only for extravasation and bowel injury. This is because these types of injures can have a more variable appearance and anatomic location. Extravasation refers to active bleeding, which can be seen anywhere in the body. including within organs and in different soft tissues. Bowel injury includes injuries to the mesentery, which is what attaches the intestines to the abdominal wall.
and in the comments:
\nhttps://www.kaggle.com/competitions/rsna-2023-abdominal-trauma-detection/discussion/428538#2392431
\nExtravasation Injuries are often confirmed on Sequential Scans. So, in this case, you will not only need to consider Series A but A and B in unison to figure out if Extravasation is present. So probably the Extravasation is seen on instance_id of 24055. That is how we radiologists report extravasation.
\nhttps://www.kaggle.com/competitions/rsna-2023-abdominal-trauma-detection/discussion/428538#2394197
\nPseudoaneurysm: This is a type of vascular injury that can occur due to trauma, medical procedures, or other causes. It involves a small hole in the wall of an artery or vein, leading to the formation of a pulsating sac filled with blood. Pseudoaneurysms can result in extravasation of blood into surrounding tissues, leading to swelling, pain, and potential complications. It is considered a form of vascular injury and can indeed be associated with extravasation.
\nUnidentified Bright Objects (UBO): This term is not widely recognized in the medical community , However, in medical imaging, \"bright objects\" typically refer to abnormal areas that appear brighter than the surrounding tissue. These can be indicative of various conditions, such as cysts, tumors, or other abnormalities. Whether UBOs are considered a form of extravasation would depend on the specific context in which the term is being used and the underlying cause of the bright appearance on the imaging.
\nhttps://www.kaggle.com/competitions/rsna-2023-abdominal-trauma-detection/discussion/428538#2370027
\nYes labels in the train.csv are only provided at the patient/study level. Some patients may have two scans/series, which are different contrast phases (think of them as timepoints/4th dimension). Injuries may be present in one or both of the different series/contrast phases.
\nImage/series level labels were only created for active extravasation and bowel injuries given the variable appearance/location of these types of injuries. Image level labels were not generated for other organ injuries (liver, spleen, kidneys) given the time/effort to create the image level labels and since an organ segmentation models should provide information to localize these organs and help narrow focus to detecting/classify injuries.
Not sure if this helps but adding here for reference.
\nPerhaps areas in the 2nd image have \"abnormal areas that appear brighter than the surrounding tissue\" ?
", "rawMarkdown": "There is some information on extravasation in [Clarification on Provided Labels/Annotations](https://www.kaggle.com/competitions/rsna-2023-abdominal-trauma-detection/discussion/428538)\n\nImage level labels:\na. These are provided only for extravasation and bowel injury. This is because these types of injures can have a more variable appearance and anatomic location. Extravasation refers to active bleeding, which can be seen anywhere in the body. including within organs and in different soft tissues. Bowel injury includes injuries to the mesentery, which is what attaches the intestines to the abdominal wall. \n\nand in the comments:\n\nhttps://www.kaggle.com/competitions/rsna-2023-abdominal-trauma-detection/discussion/428538#2392431\n\nExtravasation Injuries are often confirmed on Sequential Scans. So, in this case, you will not only need to consider Series A but A and B in unison to figure out if Extravasation is present. So probably the Extravasation is seen on instance_id of 24055. That is how we radiologists report extravasation. \n\nhttps://www.kaggle.com/competitions/rsna-2023-abdominal-trauma-detection/discussion/428538#2394197\n\nPseudoaneurysm: This is a type of vascular injury that can occur due to trauma, medical procedures, or other causes. It involves a small hole in the wall of an artery or vein, leading to the formation of a pulsating sac filled with blood. Pseudoaneurysms can result in extravasation of blood into surrounding tissues, leading to swelling, pain, and potential complications. It is considered a form of vascular injury and can indeed be associated with extravasation.\n\nUnidentified Bright Objects (UBO): This term is not widely recognized in the medical community , However, in medical imaging, \"bright objects\" typically refer to abnormal areas that appear brighter than the surrounding tissue. These can be indicative of various conditions, such as cysts, tumors, or other abnormalities. Whether UBOs are considered a form of extravasation would depend on the specific context in which the term is being used and the underlying cause of the bright appearance on the imaging.\n\nhttps://www.kaggle.com/competitions/rsna-2023-abdominal-trauma-detection/discussion/428538#2370027\n\nYes labels in the train.csv are only provided at the patient/study level. Some patients may have two scans/series, which are different contrast phases (think of them as timepoints/4th dimension). Injuries may be present in one or both of the different series/contrast phases.\nImage/series level labels were only created for active extravasation and bowel injuries given the variable appearance/location of these types of injuries. Image level labels were not generated for other organ injuries (liver, spleen, kidneys) given the time/effort to create the image level labels and since an organ segmentation models should provide information to localize these organs and help narrow focus to detecting/classify injuries. \n\n\nNot sure if this helps but adding here for reference.\n\nPerhaps areas in the 2nd image have \"abnormal areas that appear brighter than the surrounding tissue\" ? ", "votes": 7, "replies": [ { "id": 2412614, "postDate": "2023-08-28T11:52:27.453Z", "content": "Thanks for the info :)
", "rawMarkdown": "Thanks for the info :)", "votes": 1 } ] }, { "id": 2411953, "postDate": "2023-08-28T01:55:15.480Z", "content": "The following scans are from 10004/21057:
\n
\n
The first one is 362.dcm and the second is 363.dcm. The img-level labels claim that extravasation is not visible in 362 but is visible in 363. I'm curious that where exactly is the extravasation?
", "rawMarkdown": "The following scans are from 10004/21057:\n\n\n\nThe first one is 362.dcm and the second is 363.dcm. The img-level labels claim that extravasation is not visible in 362 but is visible in 363. I'm curious that where exactly is the extravasation?\n", "votes": 6 }, { "id": 2412933, "postDate": "2023-08-28T15:38:58.337Z", "content": "maybe this helps?
\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfwQbT_G1E8
Then perhaps distinguishing the phases is really important, I've found a dataset related to phases. Maybe a 3 stage pipeline can work better on classifying extravasation? (identify phases -> segmentation -> prediction) Thanks for the info btw :)
", "rawMarkdown": "Then perhaps distinguishing the phases is really important, I've found a dataset related to [phases](https://vindr.ai/datasets/abdomen-phases). Maybe a 3 stage pipeline can work better on classifying extravasation? (identify phases -> segmentation -> prediction) Thanks for the info btw :)", "votes": 2, "replies": [ { "id": 2415919, "postDate": "2023-08-30T17:31:59.587Z", "content": "Don't you think aortic hu is a good enough estimator? Or have you had better results with the method described in the paper?
", "rawMarkdown": "Don't you think aortic hu is a good enough estimator? Or have you had better results with the method described in the paper?" }, { "id": 2416403, "postDate": "2023-08-31T02:51:54.237Z", "content": "There is no good correlation between aortc hu and phases. The only thing you can do with aortic hu is differentiate arterial and venous phase in multiphasic ct.
", "rawMarkdown": "There is no good correlation between aortc hu and phases. The only thing you can do with aortic hu is differentiate arterial and venous phase in multiphasic ct.", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 2416820, "postDate": "2023-08-31T08:33:11.893Z", "content": "Oh I see, thank you very much for clarifying!
", "rawMarkdown": "Oh I see, thank you very much for clarifying!" } ] } ] } ], "comments": [ { "id": 2412247, "author_name": "something4kag", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-08-28T07:02:36.513000", "content": "There is some information on extravasation in Clarification on Provided Labels/Annotations
\nImage level labels:
\na. These are provided only for extravasation and bowel injury. This is because these types of injures can have a more variable appearance and anatomic location. Extravasation refers to active bleeding, which can be seen anywhere in the body. including within organs and in different soft tissues. Bowel injury includes injuries to the mesentery, which is what attaches the intestines to the abdominal wall.
and in the comments:
\nhttps://www.kaggle.com/competitions/rsna-2023-abdominal-trauma-detection/discussion/428538#2392431
\nExtravasation Injuries are often confirmed on Sequential Scans. So, in this case, you will not only need to consider Series A but A and B in unison to figure out if Extravasation is present. So probably the Extravasation is seen on instance_id of 24055. That is how we radiologists report extravasation.
\nhttps://www.kaggle.com/competitions/rsna-2023-abdominal-trauma-detection/discussion/428538#2394197
\nPseudoaneurysm: This is a type of vascular injury that can occur due to trauma, medical procedures, or other causes. It involves a small hole in the wall of an artery or vein, leading to the formation of a pulsating sac filled with blood. Pseudoaneurysms can result in extravasation of blood into surrounding tissues, leading to swelling, pain, and potential complications. It is considered a form of vascular injury and can indeed be associated with extravasation.
\nUnidentified Bright Objects (UBO): This term is not widely recognized in the medical community , However, in medical imaging, \"bright objects\" typically refer to abnormal areas that appear brighter than the surrounding tissue. These can be indicative of various conditions, such as cysts, tumors, or other abnormalities. Whether UBOs are considered a form of extravasation would depend on the specific context in which the term is being used and the underlying cause of the bright appearance on the imaging.
\nhttps://www.kaggle.com/competitions/rsna-2023-abdominal-trauma-detection/discussion/428538#2370027
\nYes labels in the train.csv are only provided at the patient/study level. Some patients may have two scans/series, which are different contrast phases (think of them as timepoints/4th dimension). Injuries may be present in one or both of the different series/contrast phases.
\nImage/series level labels were only created for active extravasation and bowel injuries given the variable appearance/location of these types of injuries. Image level labels were not generated for other organ injuries (liver, spleen, kidneys) given the time/effort to create the image level labels and since an organ segmentation models should provide information to localize these organs and help narrow focus to detecting/classify injuries.
Not sure if this helps but adding here for reference.
\nPerhaps areas in the 2nd image have \"abnormal areas that appear brighter than the surrounding tissue\" ?
", "votes": 7, "replies": [ { "id": 2412614, "author_name": "Feng Qilong", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-08-28T11:52:27.453000", "content": "Thanks for the info :)
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 2412933, "author_name": "hengck23", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-08-28T15:38:58.337000", "content": "maybe this helps?
\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfwQbT_G1E8
Then perhaps distinguishing the phases is really important, I've found a dataset related to phases. Maybe a 3 stage pipeline can work better on classifying extravasation? (identify phases -> segmentation -> prediction) Thanks for the info btw :)
", "votes": 2, "replies": [ { "id": 2415919, "author_name": "Gyula Maloveczky4", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-08-30T17:31:59.587000", "content": "Don't you think aortic hu is a good enough estimator? Or have you had better results with the method described in the paper?
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2416403, "author_name": "Feng Qilong", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-08-31T02:51:54.237000", "content": "There is no good correlation between aortc hu and phases. The only thing you can do with aortic hu is differentiate arterial and venous phase in multiphasic ct.
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2416820, "author_name": "Gyula Maloveczky4", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-08-31T08:33:11.893000", "content": "Oh I see, thank you very much for clarifying!
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] } ] } ], "raw_markdown_by_id": { "2412247": "There is some information on extravasation in [Clarification on Provided Labels/Annotations](https://www.kaggle.com/competitions/rsna-2023-abdominal-trauma-detection/discussion/428538)\n\nImage level labels:\na. These are provided only for extravasation and bowel injury. This is because these types of injures can have a more variable appearance and anatomic location. Extravasation refers to active bleeding, which can be seen anywhere in the body. including within organs and in different soft tissues. Bowel injury includes injuries to the mesentery, which is what attaches the intestines to the abdominal wall. \n\nand in the comments:\n\nhttps://www.kaggle.com/competitions/rsna-2023-abdominal-trauma-detection/discussion/428538#2392431\n\nExtravasation Injuries are often confirmed on Sequential Scans. So, in this case, you will not only need to consider Series A but A and B in unison to figure out if Extravasation is present. So probably the Extravasation is seen on instance_id of 24055. That is how we radiologists report extravasation. \n\nhttps://www.kaggle.com/competitions/rsna-2023-abdominal-trauma-detection/discussion/428538#2394197\n\nPseudoaneurysm: This is a type of vascular injury that can occur due to trauma, medical procedures, or other causes. It involves a small hole in the wall of an artery or vein, leading to the formation of a pulsating sac filled with blood. Pseudoaneurysms can result in extravasation of blood into surrounding tissues, leading to swelling, pain, and potential complications. It is considered a form of vascular injury and can indeed be associated with extravasation.\n\nUnidentified Bright Objects (UBO): This term is not widely recognized in the medical community , However, in medical imaging, \"bright objects\" typically refer to abnormal areas that appear brighter than the surrounding tissue. These can be indicative of various conditions, such as cysts, tumors, or other abnormalities. Whether UBOs are considered a form of extravasation would depend on the specific context in which the term is being used and the underlying cause of the bright appearance on the imaging.\n\nhttps://www.kaggle.com/competitions/rsna-2023-abdominal-trauma-detection/discussion/428538#2370027\n\nYes labels in the train.csv are only provided at the patient/study level. Some patients may have two scans/series, which are different contrast phases (think of them as timepoints/4th dimension). Injuries may be present in one or both of the different series/contrast phases.\nImage/series level labels were only created for active extravasation and bowel injuries given the variable appearance/location of these types of injuries. Image level labels were not generated for other organ injuries (liver, spleen, kidneys) given the time/effort to create the image level labels and since an organ segmentation models should provide information to localize these organs and help narrow focus to detecting/classify injuries. \n\n\nNot sure if this helps but adding here for reference.\n\nPerhaps areas in the 2nd image have \"abnormal areas that appear brighter than the surrounding tissue\" ? ", "2411953": "The following scans are from 10004/21057:\n\n\n\nThe first one is 362.dcm and the second is 363.dcm. The img-level labels claim that extravasation is not visible in 362 but is visible in 363. I'm curious that where exactly is the extravasation?\n", "2412933": "maybe this helps?\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfwQbT_G1E8" } }